Randy

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Username:: solitaire
Name:: Randy
Location:: Rossville, IN
Birthday:: 03/24
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Business > Patience (And Prudence?)

Patience (And Prudence?)

It's a rainy, cool day in north-central Indiana. No golf, but no wood splitting either. I busted my maul yesterday. Grr.

I'm waiting to hear from "the man" that's going to install my new high speed internet (Century Link) sometime this week, hopefully! Yep, you read right. It's another step forward for yours truly. Who knows, cell phone next?! Should I keep my current email address for $50/yr, or get another one and have to contact all those to change? I might keep the one I have for awhile, and slowly convert to a hotmail, gmail, or yahoo freebee. One can have two email addresses at one time, can't they?

I need more advice. (And from my experience, many of you are good at delving this out!) I'll try to be brief.

My daughter and husband approached me two days ago about their future taking over the my farm for their sustainable (naturally grown/organic) farming operation. I'm all for them doing this.
However. They're "land rich", cash poor. They need a house, a barn, "start ups" (seeds, trees, irrigation pond, etc.). Where's the money to come from? They can't easily get it because when the housing market went belly up, Nate's construction business went under (bankruptcy resulted). So here's old Dad (me) being asked if I could help finance their new beginnings. Should I? I could. I can withdraw money from my savings and IRA. I can remortgage my house. But I could lose all my money (not to mention the house!) if they fail. Dare I take a chance?

They've been reasonably successful for the past 3 years where they are now (leasing someone else's farmland). I'm 90% sure they'll make it go. But there's that 10% uncertainty. Will I get paid back? They already owe me $40,000! I keep helping them, but have nothing in return (except a good feeling that I'm aiding and abetting). And I'm not being fair to my other 3 kids. They get no assistance and if I die poor, they'll get no inheritance. (Of course "fair" is what I deem!)

I have requested a printout of their finances. I need to see on paper (assuming their honesty) what their income is, and expenditures. My Edward Jones guy said he'd look at it before making suggestions (I talked to him yest.). I need to be assured they can make monthly mortgage payments (back to me), and repay all loans. This makes me very nervous and anxious. Wonder what my blood pressure readings are?
Patience and prudence are the words for the day.

posted on Oct 18, 2011 6:29 AM ()

Comments:

Read all of the older posts and was going to wait ti comment when I reached the most recent one, but I can simply refer you back to this post:
1.) High-speed Internet? Whoa! Welcome to the 20th Century.
2.) Personally, I think your daughter and son-in-law are asking too much. You do have other children to consider, and after your death, this can divide them and their families for generations.
3.) Never risk what you cannot afford to lose.

comment by dragonflyby on Oct 25, 2011 3:32 PM ()

There's been an update on all this. I'll postpone the "next installment" for a little while. Thanks for the input. I'll tell you this much: no money has come out of my billfold or account so far.

reply by solitaire on Oct 26, 2011 4:59 AM ()

Farming is very risky. I would not do it. It is not fair to the other kids
and will cause problems.

comment by elderjane on Oct 21, 2011 4:16 PM ()

I'm still weighing all the possibilities. Thanks for the input.

reply by solitaire on Oct 23, 2011 5:51 AM ()

Lots of really good comments on the money topic. Don't strain yourself financially to help them. What if you get sick? You could need your money for medical bills. You need to take care of yourself first. Then, if you can afford it, help the kids.

comment by boots586 on Oct 20, 2011 11:14 AM ()

Exactly. I hate to act selfishly, but "a fool and his money are soon parted".

reply by solitaire on Oct 21, 2011 5:23 AM ()

Yikes. I never asked for assistance from my parents but thank goodness my Dad usually offered if I hinted at something that was straining me financially. He's by no means rich, but it was nice that he offered. I declined him a few times as well and struggled through. Are they taking over your farm? Could they build a small house on your land to sustain themselves until they make it big? Or do you have an in-law suite they could take over? I know by your name that you are not about having people all up in your business, but it's a thought. Also, you can have MANY email addresses. Personally I think you should start now by creating a new yahoo,gmail or hotmail account and then slowly but surely move people over...

comment by kristilyn3 on Oct 19, 2011 10:03 AM ()

I've been thinking things over (and over and over) as to how to help. One possibility is for them to move in with me for awhile. I'm not sure I could handle it for long, but it's an alternative. They would be 5 miles from the actual farmland site. Thanks for all the advice. Under consideration!

reply by solitaire on Oct 20, 2011 5:21 AM ()

Wow, Randy. I'll let older, wiser souls give you advice on that one. For me, the real sticker was the remark about your other children. That is a very important consideration. Any misstep could actually drive a wedge and cause problems between them even after you're gone.

comment by jerms on Oct 18, 2011 8:28 PM ()

I've thought about keeping it a "secret", but that would never work. They're all very close (not in distance). Plus, I have my reasons (which I won't go into) for helping Emily and Nate, not my other kids. It has to do with their choices and attitudes. 'Nuf said.

reply by solitaire on Oct 19, 2011 5:24 AM ()

If you do it, just be careful to protect your self and clearly lay out your responsibility (like you will work some hours, but not be a 24x7 slave... etc).

Don't keep your old email. Set up a new one right away (I like gmail), and inform everyone. Keep the old email for a month or so, to check who is still using it, then close it.

comment by crazylife on Oct 18, 2011 8:19 PM ()

I haven't been helping them too much actually "farming" because they live 45' away. Soon, it will be 5'! I want to help more, but golf and "retirement" comes first! Good advice on the email situation. Will do just that.

reply by solitaire on Oct 19, 2011 5:20 AM ()

You know the situation better than I. Farming can be a risky operation at best. I would rely on your financial adviser, determine if their income would sustain the mortgage while supporting them and go from there. Good luck!

comment by redimpala on Oct 18, 2011 8:15 PM ()

Short and sweet advice. It's a process, both in thinking about and acting on.

reply by solitaire on Oct 19, 2011 5:17 AM ()

Patience and Prudence-I remember them! I have two emails-each free. One is from AOL. Even though I no longer use them as my provider, I still have a free email account with them. Most email accounts will automatically notify your address book people of your new account when you set it up. You just check a box when they ask you. Next thought-are you giving them the farm and house? Selling to them? Renting just the land to them? I believe you said they are leasing land now. Will you all be living together in the farmhouse? I have helped my daughter financially and feel guilty that I have not given my son an equal amount even though he doesn't need it. I plan to leave him more when I die to even the score a little.

comment by boots586 on Oct 18, 2011 4:51 PM ()

I do have an address book, but there are many organizations and "businesses" (like Duke Energy) that aren't in it, from which I get notifications, etc.
Now, for the farm. The land is in my name (as of just last year, from my father). I can do what I want with it. There are no buildings on it. I live separately, 5 miles away (on 1 acre). So they have to start from scratch, house wise. They have all the farm equipment, greenhouses, etc. Once they get set up, the profits should roll in (see drmaus comment below). So yes, in a sense, I'm renting the land to them. We'll figure out "cash rent" later. I appreciate your "expertise".

reply by solitaire on Oct 19, 2011 5:15 AM ()

I always hated it when one of our kids put us on the spot like that. She hasn't made a payment in years and I don't expect she will ever pay back what we loaned her. DH has strict instructions to loan no amount to anyone. We set them on the road of life and they'd better not take any wrong turns.

comment by nittineedles on Oct 18, 2011 10:22 AM ()

I've always paid back my parents on loans, so I just assume my kids will do the same. That doesn't necessarily follow! One has to be in my shoes and know my daughter and SIL. They just paid MY father back on a Spring loan. Good for them.

reply by solitaire on Oct 19, 2011 5:06 AM ()

All of what I said I'd ask for, in your place, still holds even if I were willing to forgive any loans my child had from me. I'd still want the farm done right. Yes, maybe I'm a control freak -- but if you were a bank, they'd have to submit a viable plan before receiving a loan.

comment by drmaus on Oct 18, 2011 10:16 AM ()

Damn, Mick. I did it again--gave you a different name! Sorry.

reply by solitaire on Oct 19, 2011 5:27 AM ()

Good advice, Tim. I realize I will need a contract. That's the prudent thing to do. In the past 4 years that they've been doing this, they have accumulated tractors, greenhouses, tools, a CSA clientele base and 2 farmer's markets. It's a pretty major operation. They've put all their earnings back into the farm, which means they've saved virtually nothing. I think they're on the verge of making big money. Actually, I could become richer. (I'm thinking 3% loan return.) That's to be discussed. I'm going to approach this from a business position/proposition. I appreciate your input. Feel free to add more as you think about it.

reply by solitaire on Oct 19, 2011 5:03 AM ()

I hope it isn't rude of me to say it, but it sounds as if they are asking for not only your land but most of your money now too, and what about your house? Would you be able to keep it up on your reduced funds? They are asking you to believe in them, but also for a major life change on your part, apparently.

Without knowing anything at all about farming, I know I'd still be requiring a business plan, how much money they project they'll need, the layout of the future farm, the equipment and buildings involved they'd need to buy/build, and a weather study -- checking out what has happened to other small farmers in the area in the last few years concerning weather. Out of respect, they should be willing to do all that.

And I'd look for an attorney to give suggestions about the loans and draw up an agreement etc. YES, YOU SHOULD HAVE A WRITTEN AGREEMENT, even with family. A written agreement means they are taking you seriously, and will pay you back; no one's got in the back of their head, "Well, if we don't make money, Dad will forgive me, so there's no reason not to do this."

If I didn't get nearly all of the information re: plans I'd asked for, I'd only do a partial deal with them, certainly not the full amount they were requesting.
Firstly, I'd need to see what their present work has reaped for them. (I do own a small business, and have gotten used to gambles, but you do your research and try to clearly envision "What if the worst happens?" -- so you can do interesting projects and not be taken by surprise.) I mean, this is no small undertaking.

My two shillings.

comment by drmaus on Oct 18, 2011 10:08 AM ()

Wow!tough choices there.Martin is right about giving the children their inheritance while your still alive and why not.
I have been doing this for years for my children.Mike surely remember the cost of each one of them.You didn't tell me that you are wealthy

You can get all free email that you want.Or if you need them.I have two and that is enough for me.
As for me,not to be tacky but I will not loan or get involved in this.
You know the story that It is never going to stop.They will keep harping on you.If you have a guilt feeling?well this you will have to handle.
AS for me.

on the loan.Do not know what the rest of the future is.OMG your kids are going to hate me.

I have been through this many times.Loan money out and not repayment.
Do I feel guilty know.Let Mike worry about it.

comment by fredo on Oct 18, 2011 9:54 AM ()

Thanks. I'm taking all this in, but will make my own decisions. I have mixed feelings at this time.

reply by solitaire on Oct 19, 2011 4:51 AM ()

I'm paying $6 a month to keep my old email address, and because of my business, etc. I felt it was important to keep it. I don't know how much email you send/receive, but maybe you'll get comfortable with the idea of using one of the free emails in a few months and drop your old one.

comment by troutbend on Oct 18, 2011 9:28 AM ()

That's what I'm thinking. Over a year's span, I'll gradually inform "everybody" of my new address. I just don't want to go through the hassle all at once.

reply by solitaire on Oct 19, 2011 4:49 AM ()

Regarding e-mail--why pay $50 when you will get a free e-mail address with whatever high speed you are getting and yes you can have as many free e-mails as you want--I have yahoo, gmail and At&T--if you haven't done it yet print out the currents e-mail addresses you have.

As far as financial advice I am the last one to listen to BUT many years ago didn't you work hard so your kids could have a better life? How many times did you tell your son, "I'm doing all this for you"? Let's face reality, in spite of all the 'good health' things you are doing (or maybe because of them) you could drop dead tomorrow and they would get the money and farm anyway--why not give your kids their inheritance now while you are still alive with, in writing, that they will take care of you by giving back weekly, monthly, whatever enough money to take care of your wants and needs figuring what all cost the past 2 years? I know all that may not be too clear but I also know you understand what I am talking about.
OMG!!! High speed Internet!!! I would love to have pictures of your face and reaction the first week you use it!!

comment by greatmartin on Oct 18, 2011 8:44 AM ()

My daughter has reassured me that they would take care of me if I should happen to lose all my money. She's a very loving and sincere person--I take her at her word. However, I'm sure they won't fail. People have to eat. Thanks for the advice--really!

reply by solitaire on Oct 19, 2011 4:47 AM ()

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Patience (And Prudence?)