Ok Red. I had to think about this a few. Before I decided to reply.

I think, you have this "perception" of me that is all wrong. I first want to say, you are "welcome" to me to say whatever you think. I won't take offence. I actually love your comments, although (with you) I consider most wrong.

I am NOT out there, beating kids.. and no.. they don't hate me. They actually love me. I WILL however be "strong" to them. It's getting through. Roxann (the other day) said to them "You listen to Gary, and not to me"! I know why, she never follows thru. I will! They know, if I say something.. I'll follow it. She yells "way more", but they know what she says won't last. I rarely yell, but when I do.. it's "strong".

I have "yet" to spank a kid, or hit. Never have. Don't really plan on it. I do however want them to know I am "quite" capable. I will if I have too. And I really won't worry about a "consequence" to me. I need them to listen. Simple, Black and white to me.

Do they need "Psychological" help? I'd say YES. But again, that isn't my call. What I see is this. They are going to church all the time. Doing the "volunteer" things, even stealing from us to sound better to them. They won't do crap here, but will spend "hours" helping the church.

Am I worried about "Social Services"? No, not at all really. I'd actually love them to come in. Stephen is "17".. Take him away... I don't care. Jeremy is "15".. Take him or leave him. Neither has ever been hit, the truth they want to say to their parents "Has yet" to be revealed. Roxann "hides" what they do to their natural fathers. If it comes about, I won't. I have "proof" on everything I say. Stephen, you are almost "18".. Can kick your ass out. Jeremy, send your ass to Military school. If either wanted "Social Services" in.. my door is open. If either wanted their "natural dad's in".. my door is open.

What you seem to think Red, is I am being a "hard ass or something". I really am not. Everyone (and I mean everyone) is pushing me to be "harsher" on them. I am reluctant. I don't want to push too much (being not my kids). But when I realize both are "constant thieves" (way more then Roxann believes). Know both failing school, both sit here and play "video games all day", both help nothing in the house, and disrespect parents. I'm gonna "react" however I will.

Do they need a "Thearapist"? Probably. I am sure not "Dr.Phil or Oprah". I'll tell them what I think, but in the end I am very direct. Maybe they need both.

Gary